In this podcast, Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone are joined by attorney and author Braeden Anderson to discuss his book, "Black Resilience: The Blueprint for Black Triumph in the Face of Racism" and the Black Resilience Movement, which aims to empower and celebrate Black success and resilience, rather than focusing on blame and helplessness. They also touch on Anderson's background in basketball and the car accident that changed his perspective on life.
Guest
K. Braeden Anderson, Founder at Black Resilience Foundation
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/braedenanders0n
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/braedenanderson/
Hosts
Dr. Susan Byrne Stone, Therapist, Coach, Professor, Consultant, Talk Show Producer & Host and Mentor
On ITSPmagazine | https://itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/dr-susan-birne-stone
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Welcome to the third episode of The Perspectives with Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone, featuring special guest Braeden Anderson. In this episode, the conversation dives deep into the concept of Black resilience and how to change the narrative surrounding racism. Braeden Anderson is an attorney, author, and host of his own show, the Braeden Anderson Show. He is also the founder of the Black Resilience Movement, which focuses on empowering Black communities and individuals, celebrating Black success, and promoting Black resilience as the core solution to racism.
Braeden Anderson 's story is inspiring, as he was a high school all-American in basketball and had dreams of going to the NBA. However, his career was cut short due to a car accident that left him with a 0.06% chance of recovery. Despite the odds, he made a full recovery and went on to use basketball as a vehicle for success, becoming the first men's NCAA Division 1 player to attend law school on a basketball scholarship.
In this episode, Braeden Anderson discusses his upcoming book, "Black Resilience: The Blueprint for Black Triumph in the Face of Racism, and the Black Resilience Movement". The movement is designed to change the narrative surrounding racism and focus on action, celebrating Black success, and empowering Black communities and individuals. The conversation also delves into how the system perpetuates learned helplessness and how to shift the focus from blaming and putting the responsibility on the white community to empowering the Black community.
Listeners will find this episode informative, inspiring, and thought-provoking. It is a conversation that is much-needed in today's world, and the Black Resilience Movement is one that everyone can support. Don't miss this engaging discussion with Braeden Anderson, Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone.
Be sure to subscribe to the Perspective podcast and share it with your friends and family.
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Resources
Black Resilience Foundation: https://www.blackresiliencefoundation.com/
Black Resilience: The Blueprint for Black Triumph in the Face of Racism, and the Black Resilience Movement (Book): https://www.blackresiliencefoundation.com/thebook
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To see and hear more The Perspectives Podcast content on ITSPmagazine, visit:
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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Show intro00:15
Welcome to the ITSPmagazine Podcast Network. You're listening to a new episode of the perspectives podcast, get ready to explore the complexity of life with Dr. Susan and Marco, as they offer a space for open and honest dialogue, where guests can share unique perspectives on all aspects of life. Join them on this journey to broaden your perspective, deepen your understanding of others, and positively impact society. Knowledge is power. Now, more than ever
Marco Ciappelli00:52
All right, everybody. Good morning. Good evening or good? Everything. Oh, hope you're having a good day or night, wherever you are with the Internet. You never know. I mean, we're recording this stuff. And you know, it's always happy hour somewhere isn't?
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 01:07
Yes, it is. I love that Michael has everything. Yes.
Marco Ciappelli01:12
You know, you never know. Exactly. You can tell us about that as well. I know you're the one in one of your business. So let's get right into it. For the people that haven't listen or seen our previous podcast we Braden you know, he's he's been with us, but different hosts this time different show. It was with me and Shawn. This time is the third episode of perspective with Dr. Susan. Hello, Susan. How are you? Oh, hello to
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 01:43
all the listeners. And I'm so excited about today's show. And welcome Braden. Braden Anderson is with us. And this is gonna be a lot of fun. I think we're gonna get a little bit deep, which I'm all about is you know, and we'll see where it goes. I think there's, you know, a lot that could be discussed here. And I'm really excited about this topic. So honored to have you on Brayden because there's lots of different topics with you as a guest. So could you also for those that don't know you, please just introduce yourself, and a little bit about your own background.
Braeden Anderson 02:19
Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much Marco and Dr. Susan, for having me on. And for the support of ITSPmagazine. As you mentioned, I do host my own show the Braden Anderson show. So I'm an attorney. I practice securities and regulatory law representing big companies and banks in connection with government investigations. And I'm also an author and I wrote a book called Black resilience, the blueprint for black triumph in the face of racism. And I lead the black resilience movement, which is a movement that is designed to change the narrative surrounding how we are going to solve this problem of racism and solve it in a different way. So instead of just talking about racism, we're going to do something about it, right. It's about action. It's about celebrating Black success, and, and focusing on black empowerment, and black resilience as the core and putting the power back in black communities and back in the black individual, right, as opposed to a lot of the systems and narratives that focus on putting the focus and the blame and the responsibility on the white community that is not empowering to black communities or black people. It's defeating, and it contributes to learned helplessness. And I know that Dr. Season that's going to be something that we'll spend some time talking about and getting deep into.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 03:44
Well, I love it. Great. That was a great introduction. And also just in case people don't know, you also have some success in your past with basketball. You want to just mention a little bit about that.
Braeden Anderson 03:56
Yeah, so I was fortunate to be a high school all American and I thought I was gonna go the NBA like very many high school basketball stars and sided with the Kansas Jayhawks ended up transferring to Fresno State, tried to be a big fish in a small pond, follow Paul George's footsteps, and unfortunately broke my neck in a car accident, about a month before the season. And you know, I was able to actually make a full recovery despite having a 0.06% chance of doing so. It changed my perspective, it made me realize how fleeting it really is in the grand scheme of things that the ball can stop bouncing at any moment. And I really need to look at the things that I have right now and in focus on the variables that are within my control that I can leverage to ensure success for me and my family, and basketball. While it's been an incredible vehicle for success for me, and for so many others you have to know when to Change cars, you need to know when, okay, this has actually opened up other opportunities for me. And it's okay, I'm not betraying basketball, right, by bettering myself and becoming a more well rounded human. And so I was able to leverage basketball to go to Seton Hall, for law school, actually, and get law school paid for, and became the first men's NCAA division one player to do that. And then turn that into a decent legal career thus far and and have leveraged that to, you know, try to make a difference and have a platform with, you know, surrounding black resilience and also opening up some businesses.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 05:41
So I will resist going and talking a little bit more in question to you about the accident and the how that changed your life where we'll maybe we'll do that on another show. But I think I want to move the conversation more to your current work, you have a book that's coming out, I think, in April, and I would love to take the opportunity to ask you some questions about that. Because it's really not just about the book, but it's really about a movement. And you've also started a nonprofit, it's really about this whole way of thinking, and I want to go down that route. Because I think it's so important. And a couple of things that you said, both before we were recording. And now it's about empowering for I have a background also in positive psychology. So I'm always around focusing on the positive. I mentioned previously, I've done some social work, which has that more of historically, unfortunately, even though it was somewhat empowering. It did some time and I saw how sometimes how the system actually perpetuated people to stay within a certain level as opposed to empowering them. So I I'm really curious, can you first for our listeners, just talk a little bit about what you mean, you know, let's start at the very basics. So when you talk about, you know, black empowerment and resilience and and how you, you want to really empower people to make the changes within the community. Talk a little bit about that, specifically, what you mean by that?
Braeden Anderson 07:12
Yeah, I think the best thing to open with is thinking about Black Lives Matter, thinking about diversity and inclusion initiatives, thinking about what we've done over the last 20 years. Right? There are a lot of folks who think maybe that's working, right, but if you look at Pew Research polls, from just last year, almost 70% of black Americans said it had no impact whatsoever on their life in a positive way, which is glaring, and I'm surprised it was even that high to you know, to be frank with you, because the focus on awareness, right, because that's what that is, you have to understand what the goal is of different initiatives and, and Black Lives Matter was about awareness. Let's make people more aware of racism, how it affects people, how black people are being persecuted, how they're being wronged, how black people are in pain, and our victims. And that is important, right? That is something that is a goal, it can be helpful. But we have to think about how long we're be laboring one narrative, and what the consequences are. The consequences are grave to the black community, right? Because the awareness campaign is not about black people. The awareness campaign is about white people. It's about making white people feel sympathy. It's about making white people care. It's about making white people change, or try to modify their behavior, try to hire more black people try to stop being racist. But this is not creating a powerful spirit in the black community, because this is painting black people as victims. And people tend to internalize victimhood, the more the narrative is spread and be labored over time. And so when you have a generation of people in the black community that are growing up with this narrative, and they've seen nothing else, it's been 20 years, right. And so you've seen nothing else, but a narrative of black people are being wronged we're being shot down in the streets. We're not getting the jobs that we deserve. We're being systemically disenfranchised at every single level. How is that supposed to inspire that young person to break those shackles to succeed anyway? Right. We need to focus on the examples of the individuals who are somehow some way achieving anyway, despite it in spite of it, however, the narrative goes, there are individuals who are exceptional, as many would say and then some of my critics would point out, but that's really important. See if there are individuals who are exceptions, right? They are the exception to the rule, they are somehow navigating this system of racism to be massively successful. Do Do we not all need to take notes? Do we all not need to really pay close attention? Do we all not need to make movies about these people tell their story again and again, make that front page news make that something that we regurgitate over and over, right and have the world consume, we need to tell black success stories, not only to empower the next generation and the current generations of people who are trying to be successful now, but also to help change the narrative among white people, and of all races about what it means to be black. I found it very unhelpful, when certain of my white colleagues and peers would see me as a, as a charity case, as Wow, it must be so hard to be You must be so difficult to be a victim must be so hard. You really need help, don't you? We live in a capitalistic world and America is number one, we're number one for a variety of different reasons. But we value strength. And at the end of the day, in this country, we're trying to be strong, we're trying to defeat other nations, we're trying to raise our GDP, we're trying to be successful and grow and improve our economy every day. And we're programmed, whether conscious or not, we all seek strength, we seek strength in our teams. And in our companies, when we're trying to build organizations, we want to hire strong people, even if it may be a great thing to hire a victim because you're making a difference. At the end of the day, that's never going to win out that's never going to become the dominant view. And so I want to lead a movement that inspires young black people and old black people and everyone in between to aspire for greatness and focus on the stories that matter, focus on the success stories and figure out how to navigate these unfortunate circumstances that we all may or may not be in, depending on our upbringing and socioeconomic status in life.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 12:20
Brian, you said so much in there. Oh, my goodness, I have so much great stuff. And I have a couple of comments, and then some specific questions. So a couple of things that come to mind is what I've heard as the criticism to that not not to you, but the downside, if you will, of focusing on the positive because then it discounts the societal systemic racism. And what I've always said is, it's both and it's and and, and you need both. And so what I'm hearing from you is just one part of it, which doesn't get enough attention, and is so needed. And when you were talking about the internalizing the racism and internalizing that narrative, it reminded me of the studies that were done years ago, on children and choosing dolls, and they had black children, girls choosing the white dolls over the black dolls. And, and, and that was just such, you know, showed how in in terms of, you know, they should have been choosing the black dolls, but it was an internalized thing that white dolls were better. And what did that say? So I think it's, it's, it's like both, and I'm so glad that you're talking about this. Now you also talk about now just for transparency, for those that are listening, you might be able to tell from my accent, but I am white, I'm a middle world a little bit older, in the middle aged middle will say middle aged, white, Jewish female, who've I've had lots of different experiences, I'm coming from that perspective, you talk a lot about what you want black people to know and to do and to think about. So I want to hear specifically because you're big on not just talk, I think one of your themes is we can talk about it. But really what's important is the action. And you're big on let's take action, which I love. So I want to ask, what would be something concrete that you want to ask of black people, as well as whites and non blacks? Like what is action items that you would suggest for like, Hey, guys, you know, let's do this.
Braeden Anderson 14:28
Yeah, I mean, it's it's a good question. You raise a bunch of good points there. And I just want to just respond very briefly, you know, to the notion of right, whether it's both or and and I think I think that is true. I think at the end of the day, when you see a narrative that's dominated, been dominated kind of One Direction, you you tend to kind of focus on where there's opportunity to have another conversation. Right. And, you know, having been someone who sat through hundreds of diversity and In inclusion seminars and webinars and in trainings as the one of two or three black people in a room, right, I'm very tuned in to kind of what is being said and how that could be different. I think the other piece is how it's actually working. So polarization at this country, it's never been worse, the country has been never more divided. Since the Civil War, it's not good. And it's not working or resonating with literally 50% of white Americans. It's just like, not only is it falling on deaf ears, it's actually making them angry, it's making them not like black people even more. And that is dangerous. It's dangerous to black lives. And it's dangerous to the movement and black success. So I think it's a little bit of a tug of war, right? On the one hand, we don't want to say that awareness isn't important. But in a kind of a way, we want to say, yeah, we've done a lot of that, I think that has been a thing that we've done, let's try something different. Let's just like make something else a focus for just like a little bit to say, maybe a year, two years, a month, let's just try it and see how it goes. But in terms of making an impact, and what we can do my foundation, the black resilience Foundation, were focused on shedding light on those stories. So I want to find a black doctor who grew up in the projects, give him the mic. How did you do this? Everyone thinks it's impossible, right? I want to find an engineer who grew up difficult or not, how did you do this? What were the what was the path that you had to go through, and people are going to be able to innately gravitate towards certain parts of different people's stories, and build a piece it together? If this person could do it, they had a similar life to me, then maybe I could do it. Right. And just focusing on those stories, I think can be really powerful. Because it's a form of representation. There's a lot of talk about representation. What does that mean? It's not always about just like seeing the person but but sometimes it is, I grew up never seeing or meeting or having a black doctor, right? That was never a thing a black dentist, a black, I never saw black professional. That's sad, that does impact your psychology in terms of what you think you can do.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 17:24
I once had the opportunity, I don't know if you know, her joy read. She's a and I want to get this right. She's a talk show host on one of the big cable channels really great black woman. And I interviewed her and we several years ago, and it was a privilege. And she talked about how her boys her black boys, because they grew up with when Obama was president, that they saw a black that was normal to them, that growing up with the black president was just a non issue, it was just a very normal thing to do, and how different that was for her as well as you know, for the kids. And when that shifted, I want to go to you know, Michael, you look like you had a question. So I'm gonna
Marco Ciappelli18:14
I'm gonna join him because I already talked to Braden, go for it. You're very passionate about this. And I'm really enjoying what is going on. I'll jump in after that. I have a couple of points. But
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 18:25
for now, it's interesting, because I'm thinking back to my show that I didn't bring tell you about. But about well, it's I guess it's six or seven years, you know, the pandemic through my timeframe off. But I'm in Brooklyn, and I started a show on public access TV called your voice with Dr. Susan. And in the space that I had started the show was public access and Burke and shout out to work in Brooklyn, a fabulous place. It's not only public access, but they do a lot of education, training, and provide space for really for everybody, but they really focus on people who would not have access because of privilege. They it's, I don't want to say underprivileged people who just don't have access. So a lot of what I was trying to do is bring on guests to profile, actually what you're talking about. So all of my guests at the time, I think most of them were people, minorities, blacks and other people who were very successful in what they were doing. They were record producers, they were restaurant tears owners, lots of different things. And it was so one of the things that came out that was so interesting was they were hugely successful, but yet they weren't identifying themselves as successful in any space. And it was so important, but that was an aside thing. I actually have this whole thing when you talk about the last few years and the Black Lives Matter and the results of that and how there was a lot of non change that came from that the concept of white privilege has always I want to get your thoughts on this because even though I agree with the concept, personally, I've always thought that it was a disservice to kind of use that phrase for people for white people who are a racist, because the word privilege means that you have something that you shouldn't have, it gets kind of missed, you know, missing mystifying does that. And instead of saying, like there is inequality, or people should have access to what you have, as opposed to this notion of taking it away, I was curious about your opinion on that, because it's something that I've struggled with in terms of that kind of that the languaging, because the language matters, sometimes.
Braeden Anderson 20:53
It's tough. I mean, first of all, I think white privilege is real, it is a concept that is real and rooted, in fact, however, when it is used as a weapon, it is very divisive, and it doesn't work. So if you're using white privilege as a sword to attack people, if you're using that phrase, and that concept and that term, to attack White people, that is not going to be effective, we have to use tact, tact always wins, it's always the more appropriate method of going about progress and change it, we're not in that time, we're not in that, that place in history where we're actually going to fight, right. And so when you're actually when you're trying to work through the dynamic of making a difference and trying to make a movement work, you need support, you need support from both sides of the aisle, both in all races that make up America. And it's really about this concept of one country and one community that has not been focused on it's not been a priority, it's not been a message that many have really paid attention to. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. One of them being that it doesn't make money. I mean, that's not like, I don't want to be conspiracy theorists here. But like, listen, the media is about their business. And I can't even really fault them. Because at the end of the day, we're all just trying to be excellent in our own business, right. And the business of media and marketing and attention, thrives on divisiveness, it does, it's what sells it, what's its what drives ratings. And so we all have to kind of big picture, zoom out and see that that's kind of what's happening. But as people as human beings, as individuals, we do have a choice to kind of really think through what we're supporting, and what we're consuming and digesting. And think about whether that's right, because we do have the power to change what sells, right. That's what's been effective marketing and, and it's what's been effective in driving attention. But I think if we can all just kind of take in what's happened over the last 10, five years. In particular, we can see that this has driven a wedge between our communities and made things even worse. And at the end of the day, black resilience. The reason why I think it's so important, so powerful, is it doesn't attack anybody. I'm not attacking white people. I think it's important that white people that pull up a chair and read the book and want to understand what I'm talking about here, that they understand the role that whites and white people in the white community in the history of this country play in terms of making black lives a little bit harder, in terms of just understanding that black people have it more difficult, right, and that there are privileges that white people have that black people don't have. And listen, it's not that that's okay. But it's important to acknowledge that. And I think in terms of tact, I specifically believe that it is a better way for white people to digest white privilege in the following way. When I was in college, I handed in a paper, my paper, it was an A it was an A paper. The guy gave me an F All right. And it was shocking freshman year. I was shocked by it. The second semester had always the first semester and so I was like what the heck is going on here? An F like really? Right. It's like I would have been angry with a bee honestly. And he said you didn't write this paper. You just You didn't write it like just get out of my face. be lucky I don't get you expelled. Right now. And I didn't handle the situation. Well, I essentially was like, like, you're gonna, you're wrong about me, look me up in 20 years, asshole, right? And I stormed out. And I kind of thought more and more about that. And like how could have I dealt with that situation in a better way, but it hurt my ego. And I knew that this person like he was not going to be convinced, right. And it would have been a huge mess to go through the administration. And like, I still think back and like how I could have dealt with that, after the fact better. But what I started doing moving forward was essentially giving like a pitch to each professor. And I would introduce myself at the very beginning of each semester and say, Hey, my name is Braden, I just want to let you know that I'm on the basketball team. And I don't know what experience you've had in the past with student athletes, but I just want to let you know that I really care about your class, I chose it because of XY and Z, I want to become an attorney. And I take my academics super seriously, I have a really good GPA and blah, blah, blah, and like, you know, just try to get them to see me in a conversation where they can understand who I am without making a mistake in terms of judgment, right? Because that's all that bias really is. It's somebody who doesn't see you the way that you should be seen. Right? Different from reality. Right? And so that's something that in telling that story. I'm not trying to attack White people, I'm just saying, listen, things were racist. And I did this to stop it. And isn't that interesting? And I think what's happened when white people hear that story, they're like, huh, wow, I can kind of see how that would happen. Because you're a tall black guy with tattoos, who comes to class maybe late sometimes and who's sweaty? Maybe you wouldn't always be seen automatically as the straight A student, right? Maybe there could be some bias that's there. And isn't that an interesting way that you overcame that. And it's a way better way to have the white community grappling with these issues. It's a way that they can empathize with you, and kind of go down that path. When you come out with a sword. And you're like white privilege. People feel attacked, they feel anxious, it triggers fight or flight responses, frankly, in people.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 27:23
I love, love, love, love that example. Because there's so much in there, you had every right to be upset. You know, as you said, you maybe you didn't handle it as well, initially, you reacted. But instead of just saying eff this, and you know, you took it into your hands. And you didn't say, You got angry about it, and you have a right to but you said okay, how can I change it for myself? You didn't say how can I go out and change the in that moment? You weren't worried about? I mean, you were but you didn't. You just said okay, what can I do? That's in my control, right now over this in my education. And I think sometimes people get stuck with I can't change the world, therefore they become paralyzed. And so what I love about this example, is that you took again, what was in your you're not saying that the world is great that this was should have happened to you? You didn't just go, you know, drop out of school, like I've seen people do. I also teach Community College, and I teach a lot of students from lots of different places. And yeah, I mean, I don't have that. But I can see how professors do have that, and how that would happen. And I have to ask, Have you invited that Professor onto your show? Or have you had cars? Because as you're describing him, I'm thinking you need to have him on your show or something on your own podcast, to have a follow up discussion or year though? Because maybe he learned a lot and can come on and say things, you know,
Braeden Anderson 28:55
I yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know about that. I think he I mean, he I'm sure we'll we'll see his name is he's named in the book. I didn't pull any punches. I've used his name and podcasts and speaking events before. And I think that's kind of I think that's just the kind of the natural consequence of, of having something like that happen. It's unfortunate.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 29:23
But I think it's a good thing. Because hopefully, if he's listening to this, you know, he can come forward. And I think that would do a lot for society if he goes, you know, because people don't know what they don't know. And that's one of the
Marco Ciappelli29:35
well, let's talk about that. Because I don't know I'm with I'm with Brett and here I wouldn't want to have that. I would
Braeden Anderson 29:41
be shocked. I wouldn't be happy to have him on my show. I would be so happy. I wouldn't be shots. So let's change most college professors.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 29:54
But let's change the narrative that right because what's happening now is that you and Marco are are showing your bias. You think that people? No, no? Oh, okay, because I'm not
Marco Ciappelli30:05
saying he shouldn't. But I think there are other ways on our show
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 30:09
together, okay. Because I think that, you know, it's like people. Yeah, he totally was 1000 and 1,000%. Right, like, there's no way, but maybe he could learn from that.
Marco Ciappelli30:23
But let me let me make a point here, let me let me open this conversation a little bit more to the fight that we need here. It's, it's, we're finding way. And they're all incredibly effective, but their ultimate goal is a shift as the cultural shift. And there is so much. I mean, I just did a podcast about bias in artificial intelligence and algorithms. So I feel like every time we had this conversation, the result? It's never the technologists fault. People love to think that, but it's because it's so intrinsic, in layer and layer and generation and generation in our society. There. Yeah, we need to make a lot of noise. But we need to also understand that sometimes it's it's deeper, that that's what it is. Right? So my question here up to actually, one is, when you were writing this book, who do you have in mind as your audience meaning? Is it that book that why people and everybody should read? Because I feel like that should be the answer? I'm pretty sure it is. And if being on one side or the other, which ideally, there wouldn't be any side in the future, is there a lesson there for for both, that it's constructive for both that they'd like some role models example. And, you know, cuz you can just do it on one side, it has to happen together. I don't know how
Braeden Anderson 31:59
but so the book is written to a black audience. And I did that very purposely. I found it fascinating in doing my research for the book that the majority of books written on race were written by white authors, I found that fascinating. And they not only were written by white authors, but they were written to white audiences. And I just found this baffling. And then I looked, and then the next biggest section was black authors, again, writing to white audiences. And I just found it fascinating, I found it wrong, that it should be such a dominant group. And so I thought it was really important that, especially in light of the movement, and the message of empowerment, that this conversation be directly to a black individual, to the black community, because we are actually in power, we have power, you have power, I have power, we have power, you can make an impact. And it's it's essentially based on the premise that I hope the world changes, I hope it does, I hope that racism is eviscerated from the planet. However, I'm not going to bet my life on that, and neither should you. Right. And that's, that's really what the whole point of that situation with the professor and telling that story is all about. I'm not going to change the world overnight. And I, if I were to even think about doing that, I would spiral into depression. However, I may not even be able to stop every racist thing from ever happening with me. But one thing at a time, you can learn, and you can try different things, you can focus on the variables that are within your control, and try to execute on those as best as possible and continue to learn, had it not worked. When I tried to explain myself and build empathy with my professors, then I would have tried something else. You know, luckily, that worked. And I was able to move on to the next problem, right? There's lots of different ways that racism impacts us. And you have to have a strategy and a solution to navigate each one. And that's unfortunate. And I think that's a big piece where again, where there is criticism. It's very difficult to criticize the movement in terms of whether it's going to work because it does it, of course is going to work but people don't like the idea that that's their responsibility. That's not and that is tough. That is a very difficult thing to swallow. That my own personal success is actually my responsibility, even though there are variables that are outside of my control, even though my environment is in many ways slanted against me, even though it's not fair even though the world is not equal, and that people are not equal. Well, in this current world and environment that we're in, it's still my your responsibility to do our very, very, very best to navigate and be successful. Anyways,
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 35:13
Brian, I love this. I mean, I, this is what I preach all the time. In, in, in any space I'm in, you know, a lot of my work is I work a lot with, as in my therapist hat with individuals, couples, groups, families, but it's all also comes down to the individual and the relationship itself. And what your what you can do boundaries, you know, all of that. And so what, you know what you said about, you know, the book, the majority of books that they were by white people, for white people, white, white people, for black people, and, you know, black people, for white people, and that your book is about specifically for your talking to the black audience. And I think you No, that's mean, I can't I'm not a black person. So I can't say what's on the shelves and what's needed. But it sounds phenomenal. And it sounds like even though it's your intent, and as Marco you asked who's your audience? I think it's also could be read by white people. I can't wait to read it. Because I think that there's both universal stories in there. But also to that story is so important for white people to hear because, again, you don't know like, I don't know what I don't know. And I have to be honest. And I will say this because, you know, I, everybody has biases, there's nobody alive, that is not racist in some way to something we all have. We all grew up a certain way. And, you know, the more that you learn, the more you realize how it's how it's coming out, again, like so.
Braeden Anderson 36:48
Yeah, just really quick on that, I think. So. In the book, in the intro, I say this is written to a black audience. However, I invite everybody to pull up a chair. But that's the art form. In terms of having a black audience. Think about it more as the art form. It's the form in which the art can be the most genuinely Express. Because I'm talking to people who get what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to preach anybody, I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty. It's not the focus, I'm just trying to have a raw real conversation with people who get it. And that's also, again, more tactful. If you're a white person picking this up, it's a lot better to read that than to read something that's attacking you. Right? When you feel attacked when the when the words are jumping out of the page at you. That's not very enjoyable to read. Right. And so I again, think that that is going to be the more effective way of white people consuming this dialogue as well. Because you're listening in, it's, you're able to kind of listen in on a huddle and say, Wow, this is fascinating. Wow, this is interesting. Wow. Without it being directed at you.
Marco Ciappelli38:10
Yeah. Right. And can I ask you something, because I always discussed, you know, things about diversity, you know, in all the forms. And right now, we're talking about one specific, but there is always the role model, right. So there is the role model that is either a book for young girl that wants to become an astronaut and inspire her to go against adversity, there is the successful black people, there is the neurodiverse success and so forth LGBTQ I mean, everybody's is fighting into a model. But I'm connecting with what you said about having this role model. But again, putting this role model as the one damn exception, instead of this is what it should be so that the kid looking at the President, as you say, you know, Obama thinks it's normal, that it should damn be normal, black president or any kind of President. So how can we, I don't know, create a role model in a way that is not just like, depicting the exception, but depicting the fact that even just by being presented this way, we're screwing it up again.
Braeden Anderson 39:31
Hmm. Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point. I think anytime where here's the, I think it's a really tough question to answer. Because it's often like very subtle and like, you know, it's really tough, but I would, I would say that the question that you should always be trying to answer when you're trying to create this kind of content, or promote this content or figure out what to support. The question that you should ask yourself is, is this painting in the black community in a victimhood light, or is this painting the black community in a position of strength? Is this highlighting virtuous, great aspects of black community? Not only a narrative of overcoming, right? Because we are more than the narrative of overcoming, right? I think certain, like, let me give you an example. There's a book, and I'm sorry to do this, but there's a book called I am enough. And you may have heard of it. It's very, very popular and made a lot of noise. But my immediate to me, it should be obvious, but my immediate feedback and criticism is, and it has a black little girl on the cover, and some very powerful and important black people were involved, and white people. But my immediate criticism is, you're way more than enough. You're way more than enough. I am enough. I am enough, right? And it's a little black girl looking in the mirror. And it's a whole story. But I'm enough, and I'm enough, and I'm good enough. No, that's not we're not trying to get to good enough. Right? If you're way more than enough, you're incredible. You can be anything, of course, kick everyone's ass, right? Don't embrace, like, what you would hate the most. And I've said this before, but I think it's the most powerful way to put this. If you're a truly racist person, if you actually like hate black people, what you want is for their spirits to be broken. More than anything. That's what you want. You want young black boys and girls to grow up and think, I don't know if I'm enough. I don't know if I'm enough to just do anything. I mean, I just, I'm black. And things are hard for black people. And the world's not fair. And I don't know, can I even get this job. So even try. So don't even try to law school. There's not that many black lawyers, it's less than 2%. It's not that many black doctors either must be really hard, it must be almost impossible, especially for me, my grades aren't even that good. And I grew up in this area. There's all these ways that we talk to ourselves and negativity spirals and spirals, and it breaks down the spirit of one person that leads to another generation. Because your parents, even some parents, they love their kids, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, you love your family. But when it's that deeply ingrained, when you truly don't believe that you're good enough, when you truly don't believe that the world will allow you to become successful, you have no choice, like it just comes out of you. And you do pass that on to other people that you love, whether knowingly or not. And that is what we really need to fight against. That idea that we're not enough, that idea that we are victims that need to be saved. What's truly scary to a racist person is an empowered, strong, confident, black person who believes that they are way more than enough who believes that they're not just as smart, smarter, not just as strong, stronger, not just capable enough, more than capable, the best. And that's why there is often a narrative which harshly criticizes arrogant black people. They don't like it, they don't like it more than anything. black athletes, who showboat who are overly confident about their abilities, we hate it, not we meaning a lot of society, and not even just society that's painted as racist, mainstream society really hates it. And I think that that's really interesting, because what are they doing that if when they're not hurting anybody else? They're just showboating and being excited about a big play. Why why do people detest that so much? And I think it comes down to this innate just feeling of, of uncomfort about a black person who's supposed to be in a certain place in life, who is making millions and millions and millions of dollars and who is so much better than the other person and the other team on that play, that they have this ability to Showboat? And I say let them show up. Enjoy it. Right it's yeah,
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 44:47
I want to enter into another and and I'm big on the ends and another perspective and get your your take on this because what comes to mind when you're saying that about truly racist people and how they don't want black people to succeed, what comes to my mind is not the succeeding as much as the takeover that it comes from. For some, again, it's not an all or nothing but you know that there is a group where it's the fear of and the narrative that there that, that other group, whether it's black, whether it's whatever that other is, but in this case, let's talk about as black, that they're going to lose, they're going to be things taken away from them if some another group succeeds. And I think that historically, that's been the narrative. And so they're experiencing them the racist, right, like those, you know, that they're experiencing that as a possible threat. Because one of the things that I have often heard is that when you in within white racist people, that when you have a black doctor, a black, very successful person, there they go, all but I'm not talking about them. You know, I don't know, Braden, if you've ever heard it, but I've heard that from white people, you know, when I've gotten into as a white person getting into conversations with white racists, and I'll say something, or will point out a person and they'll go, oh, I don't mean them. So in that it's like they can some again, it's not an all or nothing here, I think there are some that embrace that. But there's two things. One is some people welcome that. And so I agree about profile. My profiling is the wrong word here, but stressing and showing, and really concentrating on the strengths and the positives. But I don't I don't know I'm questioning if everybody's always threatened just by black success, or if it comes from the fear that they're going to be replaced and lose something from it. What do you think about them?
Braeden Anderson 46:58
I think the unfortunate reality is that so long is anyone has that mentality, that someone else who has a different color skin than you succeeding? And even taking over? Meaning what right, it's like a larger percentage than they did before it is going to happen at the White expanse. So the reality is that if you are counting score in that way, then that is correct, because the majority of the legal profession, for example, is white in this country, it's less than 2%. And the big in big law black. And if black people are to continue to rise and take percentage share, it's going to come at the expense, in part, at least of of white attorneys. And that is, I think, at the end of the day, part of the problem of the question is almost the problem, because the goal should be the most talented lawyers that America has to offer. I agree. And, and it really, it's like it doesn't like whether they're white, or black or matte male or female or Asian or Jewish or doesn't matter. Right. And I think once we start to think that way, where it doesn't matter what color skin you have, we're all just human beings. Right? I think that's just like part of the disease that I think that that we're trying to work through in this country, is the fact that it just doesn't really matter. We don't have to constantly keep score, and categorize ourselves by the color of our skin. I think my book focuses on black people, because so much, much pain, and so many issues are focused there right now. But I really hope that in the future, I can write about other things, I saw a problem that needed to be solved. And so that's why I wrote on the topic. But you know, I can't wait to write about other things and try to solve other problems.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 49:12
Well, I'd love to get your opinion on affirmative action. But that's for a whole nother show. Because we can really talk about that I'm noticing the time. And I just want to ask, you know, before we go, so what would be again, one of the the action items you said was to really highlight positive thing, strength based profiles of people, black people, what are some of the action items that are in your book that maybe you can recommend for for really, any of our audience members?
Braeden Anderson 49:43
So I mean, I first have to say this, like, I assure you is not a plug, but you have to buy the book, because there's so much that we can try to talk about and in 20 minutes and 40 minutes, but like I needed a whole book to say it and I think that can be See the most effective ways of sharing information, sharing ideas, big ideas, not just like a sentence, or a couple sentences, but like a whole movement, I really think that the, the, the dissemination of the book and the movement of black resilience is going to be dependent on that. And so that, I would say that first, I think the other piece is just think about in any way shape or form in your life, that you can highlight the success of a person of color that you can really just focus on highlighting, adding value sponsoring, mentoring, just when you find anyone not undeserving people deserving find a black person in your life that you come across a black business, a black employee, a black manager, black supervisor, they can be above you, praise them, right, tell their boss, how you know how much you enjoy working with them, and how great how much you've developed under their tutelage. Think about any ways that you can add value to to black people in the black community, and just highlight those successes. And you know, just for now, let's just take the GAT the foot off the gas on on the dissemination of paid narratives.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 51:16
Well, Brandon, I look forward to reading the book. And I would love to have you back on after Marco and I read the book, because I think there'll be a lot more questions. And this is such important work. And, you know, there's so much that you said, that, really, we could just talk about for hours. But I want to, really, from you know, I've learned about you, and I think you're doing amazing things. So I want to say thank you, you know, I want to say to you what you just said, like, you're a black man, I want to praise you, I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible, and on so many levels. And so I am like so impressed by you. And thank you, thank you so much for being you. And for really, your passion is amazing. And your investments in terms of human beings, because that's what I'm hearing like, you want to make this world a better place. And what you're doing is you're saying, What can I do to do that the example that you did in college, it sounds like you're just doing that continuously in your life. So I just want to thank you. And it's been a real privilege for me to be in conversation with you.
Braeden Anderson 52:27
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the those warm words. Thank you.
Marco Ciappelli52:31
I'm gonna add to that, because, you know, we spoke before, and we didn't even hang up the communication or there was off the record. And so then I was like, you should have a show. Because, you know, it's about the book, but it's all about all the other passion and conversation you can have. And I want to finish these exactly with that you're you're very busy. But you already started the show. So I want to invite actually people to listen to that one. First step is uh, you have with hip hop legend, brother Lee, I listened to it, you are expanding the conversation even before the book came out, because it hasn't come out yet. And you are using the platform and the show to to expand because if podcast is not enough to is not enough, the book is not enough. It's a big conversation. And I'm honored that you're, you're sharing this with us. So
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 53:30
I'm bringing just where can people find your book,
Braeden Anderson 53:35
like, just thank you so much Marco. So it's available pretty much everywhere that you can buy books for preorder right now Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books a Million. There's a link at my website at Black resilience book.com. And there's also information about the foundation there, how you can give how you can support us and kind of keep up to date with what we're doing.
Marco Ciappelli53:59
And we will have all those links in the note either on on the video on YouTube on our channel, or even on the perspective podcast on the simple car. So wherever you are listening or watching right now, do something good. Check out and get in touch with Braden his spray here, you know, maybe you can be a guest on the show if you really want to, you know, bring on the camera,
Braeden Anderson 54:24
looking for gas looking for gas.
Marco Ciappelli54:28
I have not done that. A lot of people will come and have this conversation with you. Right and thank you so much, Susan, thank you so much.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 54:36
Thank you, Marco, you know, this is the place again, perspectives as you can hear. We're having, you know, hard conversations sometimes that need to happen. Right, we're at we're this podcast. Hopefully we will continue to provide spaces where we can have those real and important conversations for all these different issues that really affect us all. So thank you to all of our listeners and viewers. And again And to Braden for today's discussion and we wish you all the best. Have a great day night, wherever you're listening, good health. And thank you all.
Braeden Anderson 55:09
Thank you. Bye bye We hope you enjoyed
Show intro55:15
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