Journey through time and space as we discuss "The Evolution of Life: Big Bang to Space Colonies" with author Richard Anderson.
Guest
Richard Anderson, Author
On Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/RichardAndersonAuthor
Hosts
Dr. Susan Byrne Stone, Therapist, Coach, Professor, Consultant, Talk Show Producer & Host and Mentor
On ITSPmagazine | https://itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/dr-susan-birne-stone
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
"Journey through time and space as we discuss "The Evolution of Life: Big Bang to Space Colonies" with author Richard Anderson."
Welcome to another fascinating episode of The Perspectives Podcast, where your hosts, Dr. Susan Birne-Stone and Marco Ciappelli, delve into the mysteries of life's evolution with their esteemed guest, Richard Anderson, author of the groundbreaking book, "The Evolution of Life: Big Bang to Space Colonies." Today's discussion will take you on a mind-bending journey through time, from the inception of life on Earth to the far reaches of space colonization. Join us as we explore the significance of Earth's abundance of metals, the complexities of defining life, and the role of extinctions in shaping the course of evolution. You don't want to miss this riveting conversation that will leave you questioning your own understanding of life and its infinite possibilities. Make sure to share this episode on social media and subscribe to our YouTube playlist and Podcast on your favorite podcast player to stay up-to-date with all our enlightening discussions!
Be sure to subscribe to the Perspective podcast and share it with your friends and family.
About The Book:
Some 13.8 billion years ago an extraordinary event occurred that we call the "Big Bang.” This primal release of energy formed the universe and everything in it, including us. Author Richard Anderson’s The Evolution of Life: Big Bang to Space Colonies offers a dramatic understanding of this event, the creation of matter, how life evolved on Earth, and the wondrous extraterrestrial future that awaits us as a species, as societies, and as communities.
When you read The Evolution of Life, you will be led step-by-step along this magnificent journey to a new possible dawn for humanity. Although it often seems we live in a quagmire of non-ending dysfunction, we only need to review the histories of societies to realize that there has been progress. Forward-looking people may never inherit the Earth, but they will lead us into the future. They may likely create a permanent presence in space for themselves and their progeny. That event could be instrumental in saving our Earth.
From the beginning of mankind, we have wondered about the world around us and our place in it. At first it must have been all a mystery. When empirical evidence eluded our distant ancestors, they invented myths, origin stories, and belief systems to explain phenomena beyond their grasp. Slowly, experience and inquiry led to greater knowledge and understanding. The greatest minds of our species have tried to answer the fundamental questions of our existence on earth.
....With an approachable style and tone, supported by easy-to-follow graphics, Anderson’s mastery of the science and compassion for the human dimension bring the mystery and meaning of the universe into focus, allowing even those of us with a casual acquaintance with (or aversion to) science or sociology a deeper understanding of who we are, how we got here and where we may be going in the future. It’s “Big History” at its biggest. It’s quite a ride. —William Briggs, Ed.D., Dean Emeritus, College of Communications, California State University Fullerton, excerpt from the Foreword
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Resources
The Evolution of Life: Big Bang to Space Colonies (Book): https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Life-Bang-Space-Colonies/dp/B09XSS9D62/
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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voiceover00:15
Welcome to the ITSPmagazine Podcast Network. You're listening to a new episode of the perspectives podcast, get ready to explore the complexity of life with Dr. Susan and Marco, as they offer a space for open and honest dialogue, where guests can share unique perspectives on all aspects of life. Join them on this journey to broaden your perspective, deepen your understanding of others, and positively impact society. Knowledge is power. Now, more than ever.
Marco Ciappelli00:52
All right, everybody, this is the perspective podcast. If you're watching the video, you can see it's Dr. Susan and myself. And, of course, you're watching the video, you can see there is a third person with us, though, Richard Anderson, he's our guest today. And if you're listening to the audio, well, you're gonna have to trust us. There is one person with us. And it's gonna be an interesting conversation. We're going to talk about history. And the future. I don't know how we're going to fit it in in about 35 minutes. But I think it will be a beginning of this understanding. Susan, good to see you.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 01:29
Good to see Morocco. I'm really excited about this conversation, because there's lots of things that I know nothing about. Some of it's just really like, it's sci fi ish. So I'm excited to hear Richard's experience and what he's come up with. So welcome, Richard.
Richard Anderson 01:46
Thank you, it's good to be here. I guess I can start with a brief summary of the book and how I started
Marco Ciappelli01:56
a little bit about yourself, actually, let's start with that.
Richard Anderson 02:01
Start with with
Marco Ciappelli02:02
a little bit about yourself,
Richard Anderson 02:04
okay. I I've been retired for maybe 13 years. And the first part of that retirement, I just had fun, traveled and around the world and did different things that I'd put off for my whole life. And then COVID hit. And right before COVID, I had started thinking about this book where the lockdown gave me time and seclusion, to do the research and to complete the book. I have had a long career in science and clinical laboratory science as a as a director, mostly. And my most recent job was with Quest Diagnostics. So and then since then, I've been working as a consultant part time once in a while. So I came to write this book, I had a lot of questions throughout my career that came up that I didn't have time to really answer, research and that sort of thing. But I had this sense that, from the moment of the Big Bang, everything was set in motion that projected us to the place we are today. And I think pretty much everybody will agree with that. But how did it happen? So I started out by step wise, with the Big Bang and the formation of energy than matter. Heaven, atoms, molecules, how they were formed, stars and so forth. And so as the universe evolved, it produced materials that were that were the beginning of life that would lead to the beginning of life. And, in fact, if we look astronomers when they, when they look at space today, just empty space, they found clouds of amino acids, precursors to nucleic acids, urea, all kinds of organic molecules that have been formed just by the energy in open space, mostly ultraviolet energy, which also destroys those kinds of molecules but there's a lot of dust there that filters a lot of that destructive power out. So from there you know that that's ubiquitous those those elements those molecules are throughout the universe. There's no reason they would be located within our sphere of a few million light years, they they are they pervasive, pervasive throughout the universe. So how did them So how did life began? Well, I think, I think those molecules had a strong influence on that. And the caveat there is that life is probably similar wherever they exist in the universe, on a molecular level, because similar. So then I go into the formation of our planet, the importance of the moon, and why our planet may be in unique, not only in our so in our galaxy, but within, within the universe itself. And if you read the book, you'll read about a theory where there was a planet in within Earth's orbit about three point 8,000,003 and a half million years ago, about the size of Mars and within our orbit, and it collided with Earth, and both bodies became molten, it caused the 23.5 23.3 degree tilt of our planet, it spun off, forming our moon, it in decreased the length the day, it did that it stabilized the Earth's rotation, develop tides, which were important and life moving from the seas to the land. And it also left behind on our planet, a lot of heavy metals, radioactive metals, iron, all kinds of heavy metals. So when you look at the density of our planet, it's more dense than any other planet. In the solar system, it's more dense than Mercury, although Mercury is very close. Venus is has less density, Mars has less density than then Venus and, and, of course, earth, the least dense body in the inner of the inner planets is the moon. So that indicates that the moon lift a lot of the heavy elements with our planet, which provides the center of our Earth with a lot of heat energy, which is maintained plate tectonics, and there's a whole cycle of things that go along with that. Which is, so the long stability of our planet as a lap allowed not only life to start, but to evolve into our present state. So that's why I kind of think that you need now the beginning of life, the most current theory, and there are a lot of theories, one of which is a came from outer space. And that's entirely possible. It could have been transported here, but it still had to begin somewhere. So but the beginning of life, the plate tectonics, in our early Earth, we had very, very small continents were to Island and continents, a lot of them, we didn't have large continents, there were a lot of fractures in the Earth's crust. And then those fractures, there's something called a black smoker. And it's a chimney that forms with minerals from the hands Tyria of the earth. And it bubbles up gases, like hydrogen sulfide, and that forms these chimneys, and it creates a gradient, a hot water coming in to cold, cold water. So creates a gradient which is a source of energy. And so the thought is that life began within the smokers. And
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 08:53
I just want to stop you for one second, if I may, because I'm just thinking about our listeners, myself included, as well as I know that your book was written for a mixed audience, people who are both in the field and I believe people who are not in the field. So there was a couple of points that I just wanted to kind of underscore and then ask you to just say, for those of us that didn't study the way you have, one of the points that you made was metals that you made a specific mention that it was really interesting, because you think that we have Earth has a lot more metals. Why is that significant? Like I could I'm just wondering, like why. So it's almost like the so what, okay, so we have like, what would how would that affect? Would that make a difference in our world compared to, let's say, other planets? Because you specifically underscored that.
Richard Anderson 09:50
Yes, it would. In fact, it's very significant. The earth is Earth and Venus are the only two inner planets that have a magnetic field and That's due to the Dynamo within the center of the Earth, the iron core that rotates and creates this magnetic field, which deflects all of the energy coming in from the sun. That would be damaging to life. And it deflects it around you have the the polar lights and both poles, you have the magnetic energy that produces these beautiful lights. Venus has a magnetic field, but it's caused by it by a molten core, it's caused more by this app, highly dense atmosphere and some dynamics going on there. Mars is a dead planet. And there's been a lot of talk about, we could terraform Mars, I used to be a believer of that. We could but it would be temporary. Because Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, it could not sustain an atmosphere, it also doesn't have the gravity to hold on to too much atmosphere. Its atmosphere is about 1% of Earth's atmosphere. So that fact, is very important for the evolution of life. Because it sustained the planet for billions of years. Whereas other planets died. Life may have started on Mars, but it was snuffed out.
Marco Ciappelli11:20
All right, so I'm jumping in because I have always the same question. Let's define life. Are we looking for life to look like as are we consider in life, the microbial life that you mentioned that what started in the crust of in this in the dark? In the black smoke? You called it? That's what you call it? Yeah. So and can life happens somewhere else? Just completely different from what we expect life to be? Great question,
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 11:53
Marco. Yes, please define what you mean by life.
Richard Anderson 11:58
That's, that's more difficult than you would think. Well, I do discuss that quite a bit. And I take it first from a chemistry level defining life as carbon based. And there's a lot of a lot of stuff there that we can't go into. But so in that sense, all life would be very similar. I believe it's probably ubiquitous on the microbial level. It's where you get into this long term evolution that we have, that we have a problem with. And we need long stable environments. And the universe is not stable, it's long, but it's not stable. It's very unstable. It's very dynamic. So there is when I was in college, the course there was a discussion is a virus a life because it's, it can crystallize, blow around, and it's not metabolizing, it's not reproducing. But when it's in its right environment, it does all of those things using other machinery of the other cells to reproduce itself. So that's considered to be on the borderline of life. But it is undoubtedly, all carbon based. The next chemical would be silicon that's been discussed, and that makes up rocks in Silicon Valley, and so forth. But the molecule possibilities forming from carbon is almost limitless, limitless, it's in the billions, they don't even know how many, how many molecules can be formed from carbon, and is unique in that sense. So it would be carbon based, but would it resemble us? If it evolved, like as long as we evolved, I believe there would be it's called convergent evolution, it could look like us because the features that we have are features that are have evolved to survive in our environments. So for example, our mouth a fish's mouth is on the leading edge because it's swimming toward the food. So in CS on another planet, you would have organisms that we're going to they're going to swim toward their food there would also be sensory organ organs, you know, and on the face on the front of this organism, eyeballs and tentacles or whatever it radar if we don't know but it would have to have a means of seeing its food. That's the primary primary requirement. So in those senses, a life elsewhere would would resemble us
Marco Ciappelli14:44
it's good point. I mean, I when I put my sci fi hat on, you can think a lot of different shape and blob that maybe it is life in their own way. But would it from that that perspective that you just gave us i I can see that I mean, it's procreation, feeding, whatever their food is, we don't know. But it's still need to be found and achieved and digested and consume and process and all of that. So good, really, really good point. So is there any, I think you were about to tell us something as well.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 15:19
I was actually just thinking, as you both were talking about, like defining life, I'm always amazed when I walk through an aquarium, and I see some of those, like, even non fish, just these things that are really living. And it's fascinating, you know, without really knowing the stuff, Richard that, you know, so continue, and we want to know, what, what do you because you were on a roll, and we kind of interrupted you. But with your book, I mean, you there's several points that you want, we're all gonna read it, but you want people to get something out of it. And what would be some of the highlights that you would want the readers to know that they're going to get out of reading this, this book?
Richard Anderson 16:07
Well, we just asked beginning of life. So the next step would be the evolution of life and how, how it, how it came about, and what what it what things impacted that evolution. And in the book, I go through all of the major extinctions that happened on this planet, that comets, asteroids hitting the surface of the Earth, Earth wide fires, and all kinds of destructive things, ice ages, and so forth, and how that impacted the evolution of life, how that changed the course of life. And most of us have heard and 65 64 million years ago, the the asteroid did hit off the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico. And it happened to hit a big deposit of sulfur under under the ocean floor, which ignited and explode. That's what caused the huge explosion. And that, actually, the app that they Omnisphere became on fire almost globally. And the dinette servers, some of them were cooked, I mean, it really, really got caught. The seas were they probably boiled down to the first couple of feet, below the surface was was probably boiling. So it was a very extreme event. And it was critical for the evolution of mammals is most of us have read. And so we would probably have skills or whatever if, if that had not happened. So that's a that's a very obvious and fairly recent extension. Life itself causes evolution because there's a dynamic, there's an interplay between all living things. And that gets very interesting. And I don't know, how many people have seen the original movie Avatar. But in that movie, there was the only like,
Marco Ciappelli18:15
10 times in the movie theater.
Richard Anderson 18:20
In that movie, there was the what was it the giant tree that the mother tree, they describe the root system and the connection with the life all the life on the planet through the root system. And, and there is no, trying to think of the word there is such a thing as trees and all plants communicate with each other through their root system, with the funguses that grow around the root system, they develop synergistic relationships with each other, to a mutual benefit. That is, until things get stressful than then people, you know, people plants start to get selfish like people do. So there's a lot of parallels between our society and the society of life around us. Whether it's plants or animals, whether it's chimpanzees, or bonobos, whatever it is, we can draw, we can draw information we can we can see ourselves in some of these other relationships.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 19:28
But you're also making I think, a distinction between life and human life. Right? Like there's life as you've been talking about. And then there's also the human life, which is a little bit different. Yes.
Richard Anderson 19:47
In the book, I come up in one section is there three sections and the one is pre human, and the other is human and the third section his space the societies in space. So we there are so many parallels with between human society and animal societies, even insect societies. And when you study some of these things, it's pretty striking. And I have a little quick story is when during the lockdown, I belong to Monterey Bay Aquarium. And during the lockdown they, of course, there were no there were no guests and in the aquarium was closed, but they had staff that had to maintain and maintain all the all the sea life. And they found that the fish are normally swim around and are very active and interactive and so forth, got very lethargy, and like they were depressed. So the staff started coming out, there's a, there's a big display called this, it's a seaweed display, it's a deep tank, and they set up tables, and they would eat their lunch out there. And the fish would come over and see what they were doing. And they'd swim around and they got excited to see. And that. And they started doing that to to all of the areas and displays and interacting more with these with these animals that you wouldn't think were high intelligence, but we have to remember, everything alive today has evolved just as long as we have to book to come to this point. They have different properties, of course, but some of them are very intelligent.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 21:44
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because in the way that I, from my perspective, it's like, these were the animals that were used to having human life around, however they see it, but they saw some activity, that and then there was a sudden change in their world in their environment. And then they responded the way humans do in a sense, right? They were reacting to that change.
Richard Anderson 22:08
Absolutely. in their natural habitat, of course, they would have no exposure to humans. Alright, so and, and then with human evolution, I went into evolution of societies, because that's, that's as intelligence. And as social groups grow, societies become more increasingly important. So we go through, you know, cavemen, and we go through, I look at even politics from the standpoint of conservative viewpoints, conservative worldviews, and progressive worldviews. And I really believe that those are somewhat hardwired. And there's some evidence to in our brain structure that shows that those are, those are basically hardwired to basic worldviews. And if we picture evolution of, of societies evolution of cave societies, which would be familial groups, you have the males of this society going out on the hunt, and they have their long spears, and they and they work teamwork, and they kill a large animal. And some of them are injured in the process, because they have to get very close to this animal to kill it. And somebody comes up with a with the idea that a spear thrower, which is an extension of your arm, so you can throw the spear further, with more strength, or a bow and arrow, maybe it doesn't work really well. So the conservative group keep using keeps using spears. That's their fallback. If the new invention doesn't work, if the new invention does work, then it's adopted. But they, they don't want to give up the old one, because it probably still has some uses. So there would be an element of progressive element or risk taking element within this small society that would reproduce because they would lead to success for the cave. The conservative society would also be the fallback if there was failure on the other end. So you can see both of these kinds of worldviews evolving in our brain structure. They've noticed differences in brain structure between a normal so called normal person and a psychopath, and that some preliminary studies have shown the consistent changes in their brain which is, which is linkages from amateur Dahlia to the prefrontal and frontal lobes. So when you look at if a psychopath, and he's in prison for some horrendous act, is he really responsible in the same way that you and I would be? And
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 25:16
that could be a whole nother show? So yeah, absolutely about and that's right up my alley. But I'm curious about, you know, when you talk about the conservative and the more progressive or, you know, one of the things I was thinking about, do you think that regardless of what the path is that, in your experience, and from your research, it's, it's the one's ability, that one's desire to survive, that it's coming from the perceived threat, and that whatever decision, it's really coming from a, almost an instinctual desire to survive.
Richard Anderson 25:58
Well, we all have the desire to survive. So I think it's a it's a perception of risk. So part of the thing with a found with the, say, a progressive worldview, is you take a longer term look at society, you look further into the future for long term effects. A conservative worldview, you're looking closer in to your more immediate needs, and your family needs, your local community, you don't have as far future or as broad a view. And both of those are necessary views. But the progressive view is what's going to lead us into the future. We don't cling, progressives don't tend to cling to the past as much as conservatives do. And it is more risky, you know, possession.
Marco Ciappelli26:55
But I sense you need both, right? I mean, I think that the point you were making is, you need the people that will go out there and tested the throwing the, the arrow or whatever, the piece of wood and the sun works, because in case it doesn't work, we're good. I remember there was a comedian years ago, I think his name is Katelyn Madigan. And she made this this joke that she says, If we come from monkeys, why there are still monkeys. And I think that's, it's really funny. But it's also the point that not everything evolves in the same way. And I think you're making exactly this point. So I want to jump from here into into your third part of the book, which is the future now the post the rest of your life. And we're just summarizing and squeezing everything together here because the limited time, but because probably each single one of these chapter will be two or three episodes anyway. So let's look at that. Like all the things we've talked about. These evolutions lash adaptations, lash preservation, as Susan brought up is like, what is the drivers? What's what's next? So you talk about colonies, you actually said that you don't believe we will colonize or the moon or it's a good idea, I guess I'm very curious to see, to know that perspective. And, and so where, where are we going? You know,
Richard Anderson 28:31
I wrestled with this concept of what? Because I have big questions about our survivability as a species. Can we work together? Or can or will we destroy ourselves, and we can destroy ourselves in many ways. And one of them is The Population Bomb. There are a lot of people out there today who are saying the threat is population collapse, that's totally wrong. There are a lot of people who will say, well look at the productivity of the farming industry and how that's improved and increase the food supply. That is also wrong because it's, it's done that at the expense of the environment, and of natural habitats. For other species. We're in we're in what's called the Anthropocene, which is, which is a massive human cause extinction of all kinds of animals. So a lot of it's occurring in the Amazon as most people are aware. So we're our own worst enemies at this point. Now from a number of aspects from a social aspect, if, if you have your basic needs, if your family is taken care of that they're safe, that they're fed and clothed and housed, and they have opportunity, you're not going to be violent, aggressive out in society, but those trends will Increase as our planet gets more crowded, and as there's a greater disparity with the rich countries, the wealthy people and, and the opposite. So as and we're seeing that today we're seeing that in our society, we're seeing it around the world. There's a lot of change going on. And so how do you, how would you develop a space so you couldn't have a gunman walk into, or a bomb threat on the on the spacetime and would destroy the whole island is so you would have to screen and test and so forth? The people that would occupy these places? A lot like, Well, they did in the space program, but they were looking for, can you can you exist in a small capsule for for a long time? You know? And can you can you do those sorts of things and get along with your partner. But it will have to be broadened more into the psychological and sociological areas. How can people live together? How can we not do the things that are, and it's a very, very small percentage of the society. But in these environments in space, you couldn't have an any exception, it would destroy the whole colony.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 31:26
But you know, it's interesting, Richard, when you said that from the start, that basically, if your family's taken cared of, and you have your basic needs met, at least in the United States, as well as some other countries, I don't, I think there's a large population where that's not true like that. They may not be what some are violent, but they may not be violent in terms of guns and weapons. But we've really seen greed come, and that people are not just so happy with having their, quote, basic needs, like the need for more, and that greediness has really impacted many different in many different ways, not just with the violence in terms of physical violence, or gun violence, but in taking advantage of people in in lots of other ways. And I know that's, again, a whole nother discussion. So it's really and and then I'm thinking, you know, even if you could rule out for some of what you had talked about, it is really interesting, because then how do you? How do you account for what may come to be and wouldn't repeat itself? Like, what would what we see here with materialistic values? Just repeat again? But in space or on another climate? I don't know. It's
Richard Anderson 32:44
a that's a really good point. Yeah, I take your point at the, at the greed and it's, it's on what do we value. And so we see, we see mega yachts, and we see McMansions. And we see people trying to achieve status through material things, that would not be possible on a space colony or a space Island, you you wouldn't have a yacht, you wouldn't have a plane, you wouldn't have these symbols. So your your, your prestige would be from more of a social standpoint, what have you contributed? What have you achieved, that sort of thing, that's my, that's one of my feelings. So you could screen for those things. And I believe, you know, societies are like everything else a bell curve. So you do have the tails of the bell curve, which would be the greed, reading people on the net, that probably is hardwired into the brain to when you look at, at some of these people that just, they're never happy, they're never happy, they need more and more and more. So that's a that's a concern. So the first generation in these colonies could be screened, and a number of ways if it's in the future, they could have brain scans, they get a personality, whatever, whatever is developed, they could be screened. What about the second generation? And that's your question there. So we tend to go back to the bell curve as we as we reproduce, and it's a good question. So I think you establish mores of a society and the opportunities to acquire a great wealth wouldn't be available, the only the only means of having a gaining prestige in these societies would be through your own contribution through your own education and, and what you what you give to the, to the society. So right now I'm writing, I'm finishing up actually a novel that jumps off from the space colonies and And it's called islands in the void. And so because I wanted to develop these ideas, and I couldn't do it, and, and, and then nonfiction, I'm not a psychiatrist, and I, you know, I'm throwing out some ideas that I'm not sure I'll be valid. They're, they're more thought provoking. So, so I'm just about finished, I'm doing some small rewrites, and it should go into my publisher by the end of the month, few days. So. So that's been a really fun book to write because I can look at all of these, I can look at what the environment would be in outer space, how they would have to live, and then present some problems and see how I could handle those. And one of the things that were most people are looking at the moon and Mars is settlements. And I'm looking at the moon and Mars as a basis where people are rotated on and off, not long term settlements, because of the lack of gravity. So you have 1/6 gravity on the moon when third gravity on Mars. And we've studied, NASA has studied microgravity and kind of space, and found it to be very deleterious, and a lot of ways bone, bone density, brain swelling, you name it, or some of the organs are affected. We're not We're not designed to live in that kind of environment. And we would become very weak and over generations, who knows what we'd end up to be very fragile people. So I developed space colonies based on Dr. O'Neill's doctor. He was a physicist that developed the O'Neill cylinder which rotates and you live on the inside is a tin can you live on the inside edge, and it rotates to create one centripetal gravity. And so that's what he lives. And in fact, the people on the bases on moon, on the moon, in this novel on the moon, and on Mars, they rotate, they rotate off, they travel off the off the base periodically to live in these rotating environments in space, so that they can get, you know, their gravity exposure. And that's how I develop that part. NASA is not really looking at that yet. I'm curious because you can you can picture a voyage to Mars seven, can whatever months it would take to get there and they're in zero gravity or microgravity the whole way. And then they hit and then they have to land on Mars, and there's nobody there to rehab them when they reach the surface. You know, so how healthy will they be, we're gonna get to this point of
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 38:02
interest. Sorry, go ahead, Mark. I'm reminded of a novel that I once read, it was sci fi setting. And it was they created a spaceship for life. So they chose the people that were going to be the short version is they chose the people that were going to be on the spaceship. And you could have anything, you can be anything, it was all there. So you could want for nothing. And then you see what people do. But one of the things that was really interesting in this was the second generation, you know, that you referred to had the same problems in terms of rebellion, because that second generation did not choose to live on the spaceship. And so you know, it was really interesting. And then how does how does some of the people compete? So it wasn't with things, but it was about likability, and it got into a lot of psychological stuff there. And also, yeah, it was really interesting,
Marco Ciappelli38:56
talking, talking about that. And as we start wrapping here, I like how you're going from somebody that does a book with an entire scientific approach. And then I am guessing, feeling that creative need to say let me just go off here with sci fi because we all know I mean, Asimov and all the biggest sci fi writer they were also very knowledgeable. It was just not based on complete fantasy, right? So it's, it's almost a way to experiment what is possible in your your mind. And I want to add to the difficulties of, of colonies. I don't even like to call them colonies because they remind me of colonization. It's more like you know, let's make it habitable. But I've been talking to people that were discussing a timezone on the moon, we discuss in artificial intelligence healthcare, to take care of people that are seven to one year two Trouble away from from the planet. We don't even have not anything there. We're gonna need regulation, we have no rules, we have no laws. It's complicated. It's not just a technology to get there. And then there is the physical aspect that you say. So in a way, I think that the cylinder is a much better idea than going to find another planet almost like we're going to be traveling. Until maybe we find another planet or it's convenient. I don't want to give away your book. Maybe that's the end. Anyway, I would like to know from you as we wrap it, and of course, then we'll invite people to read the book and I actually want to read it myself. How has been this this passage from you from a scientific approach to a thick fiction, I guess? Sci Fi off the hook. Let's write about what I really want to explore in my head.
Richard Anderson 40:57
Well, yeah, you mentioned fantasy. This is not fantasy. It's called hard science fiction. So about travel times I try to keep it as real as possible, it may it may take two, I have a station at Cirrus Cirrus is a planetoid in the asteroid belt. And we're mining the asteroids. So that that's an important base out there. And so the travel time from it's a place I call le five which is Earth loop, lunar Lagrange point five, which is a orbital position that is in gravitational and, and, and orbital balance. Okay, it gets very complicated, but I have diagrams in the book for what the Lagrange points are. So it's, it's usually a larger body with a smaller body rotating around it. And then where are the Lagrange points related to that,
Marco Ciappelli41:59
and what the Webb telescope is, and one of the Lagrange point, just to Yes, is to give stability, otherwise, you don't know where it's gonna go.
Richard Anderson 42:09
And that's the James Webb Yeah. So. So I try to keep it as science based is positive, the story, the story has to be realistically imposed, or superimposed on the, on the facts that we know of, of our solar system. And then you have to develop a story, but it's, it's all constrained within within the reality of, of, of that environment. So that that sets a template where you can you can explore these ideas, and a lot of innovation in science has come from science fiction, even some of the science fiction fantasy. And it's like the, like the, like Captain Kirk's communicator became the cell phone. You know, somebody goes, well, we could do that, you know. And so yeah, especially with technology, it's. So I tried to keep it as factual as parts positive, as possible, as far as the science of the story is, and that points out some of the limitations and some of the risks that will be involved. But as far as medicine and space, yeah, it has to be self sufficient. All the food production has to be self sufficient. And I'll tell you something, those technologies are available right now. The medical technologies because that's the field they come from diagnostic tools, even remote robotic surgeries are being done, not widely, but you can picture some somebody on Earth performing surgery, remotely, robotically on somebody in space, there is there are time delays, or there are time delays. So in Mars will be an
Marco Ciappelli44:07
issue. Yeah.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 44:08
Well, you know, it's interesting, because I keep thinking, okay, so it's great that we can do that right now, out there, but we haven't even gotten it right yet, in terms of having equal medical care for all on this planet. And so, you know, being the humanitarian than I am and that perspective, it's like, Wait, let's use our resources here to get it right first, before we use it up there, but that's just me. You know, that's my perspective.
Marco Ciappelli44:39
I guess it's more the other way around. I don't know reacher but your thing. Like we go out there so that we can maybe bring it back here. I mean, I list
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 44:47
I know let's forget greedy up there. It'll be interesting to see the
Marco Ciappelli44:51
technology that come from NASA. It's, we live with it every day, right? So it's really
Richard Anderson 44:57
go ahead. You Mass a group, a team, however large it is of talent to pursue a difficult problem. It needs to be isolated in some sense from the from the politics of society. And NASA in the pre pre lunar landing days was one such organization. Now granted, it was mostly engineers and mathematicians. But for this kind of a project, you need the social sciences need to excel, that's where we're lagging the technology is is almost there, the social sciences are not, but there are great strides as as, as we learn more about the structure of the brain and how that impacts personality and how what's called epigenetics, which is how our environment influences our development. So I go into little of that in this in this person book, and how the fetus develops in the womb, and the things that impact you know, what, what we become, and the end the insults that are from our environment that affect how we develop. And the extreme example is the thalidomide case, where the the evolution or the development I failed Lucien, the development of the fetus was interrupted at various points. And it depended largely on when the lid amide was taken by the mother, but it hit the developmental decision points for mostly for limb development, arms and legs and things like that. So we had a rendus problem with that. And that's an extreme example, example of what environmental impacts can have on our development. So that could be corrected, those things could be eliminated from our environment.
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 47:01
Yeah, we're just noticing the time. And there's so much more, I'd love to explore especially going back to what you said, the whole thing about, it's when somebody commits a crime, who, what, how do we hold people responsible for that? And what should we be doing with that, that that could be a whole show that I would really be interested in. So congratulations on your upcoming novel. This is fantastic. This is great. I'm actually looking forward to reading the first book, and then I'll have the second one of yours to look forward to. And we'll have you back on. I hope you'll come back on to discuss the novel once that comes out. This is great stuff. Richard, really, thank you so much.
Richard Anderson 47:37
Oh, thank you. It's always fun to do these things. And it's sometimes hard to edit down what you're talking?
Marco Ciappelli47:46
Well, that's how we started, we said, it's a very long story that we probably don't have enough time to tell you all about it. But I think people listener got the gist of the division into three different aspects. So I think I encourage you to read it. I'll read it. I'll read it. And yeah, and I love how then you want to do the hard fact sci fi. So thank you so much. I invite everybody to stay tuned. We talk about a lot of different topics here on the perspectives. And please hit subscribe, share it with your friends and links to Richard Rich's book will be on the note for this podcast. So please get in touch with him as well. And check out the book. And at this point, we're just going to say goodbye. And, Susan, we'll see you
Dr. Susan Birne-Stone 48:36
next time. Yep. Thanks for watching, listening. And thank you, Richard, for joining us. Thank you.
Marco Ciappelli48:43
Bye bye. Bye bye.
voiceover48:50
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