MK Palmore, a senior cybersecurity leader at Google Cloud, talks about his passion for leadership and his new podcast, "The Leadership Student," where he brings in guests from a wide variety of industries to discuss their leadership experiences and insights.
Guest: MK Palmore, Host of The Leadership Student Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/mk-palmore
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Hosts
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Description
In this podcast episode, MK Palmore, a senior cybersecurity leader at Google Cloud, shares his passion for leadership and his journey from a long government career, including 22 years at the FBI, to the private sector. Palmore discusses his experiences with leadership in both sectors, including his time in the military, which he believes is a great place to practice and develop leadership skills.
Hosts Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli dive into the format of Palmore's show, where he interviews leaders from a variety of industries, sharing their stories and experiences. Palmore aims to provide listeners with valuable nuggets of information to help them develop their leadership skills. With a focus on sharing stories from people who have walked the walk, Palmore's goal is to help others understand the challenges of leadership and to inspire them to lead in many different aspects of life.
Throughout the conversation, the hosts and Palmore discuss the concept of leadership as a combination of skills and experiences that can be taught and developed. They explore the idea that leadership can take many forms, from coaching to advising, and that anyone can lead, regardless of their position in an organization. As the podcast delves into various aspects of leadership, it becomes clear that the key to effective leadership lies in a mix of ingredients that may differ for each individual.
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Resources
Meet MK in the RSA Conference Broadcast Alley as part of ITSPmagazine's Event Coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/rsa-conference-usa-2023-rsac-san-francisco-usa-cybersecurity-event-coverage
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To see and hear more of The Leadership Student Podcast with MK Palmore content on ITSPmagazine, visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/the-leadership-student-podcast
Watch the webcast version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllQdltSIJ8lWqLiflyrMxFA5
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
leadership, leader, people, conversation, folks, leading, cybersecurity, experience, career, podcast, stories, industry, position, question, listening, discipline, bit, mk, hear, opportunity
SPEAKERS
Voiceover, Marco Ciappelli, Sean Martin, MK Palmore
Voiceover00:10
Welcome to the intersection of technology, cybersecurity, and society. Welcome to itsp. Magazine. Join us on a journey to the past, the present, and the future, as we explore the relationship between technology and humanity together, and to find out what it means to live in a society where everything is connected, and the only constant is change. Knowledge is power. Now, more than ever
Marco Ciappelli00:53
done you, you
Sean Martin00:56
like me always learning,
Marco Ciappelli00:58
always learning? Oh, yes, absolutely no, I have a problem. Like even just watching or listening to things that is just for pure entertainment. I always feel like I need to learn something, it's kind of sick, I think, I don't know something is wrong with me.
Sean Martin01:15
So the reality TV shows you don't like to learn how other people
Marco Ciappelli01:20
zero interest in those kinds of things.
Sean Martin01:25
Well, thankfully, I mean, we share that desire to be students in life constantly learning. And you can either kind of go with it and learn as you go and hope things turn out alright, or where you can take a more proactive approach and actually think about it a bit and, and read about it and listen to podcasts about it. And thankfully, we know somebody who we adore and is super smart, and is passionate about leadership and helping others become leaders in his leadership. Student. It's not just a Podcast, the podcast is coming soon, which we're gonna talk about. But it's a whole series of things that our guests and new hosts on itsp magazine network MK Palmer is going to be bringing to bear he's already doing some of it. MK how are you? It's good to see you.
MK Palmore02:21
I'm good. Great to see you both Sean and Marco. Appreciate the the accolades on the tee up. Conversation.
Marco Ciappelli02:30
We, you know, we were very excited when you told us that you had an idea to do the podcast and I'm like, great, I guess I always love the way that you you speak the you motivate people that you tell stories. So this is all about telling story and teaching and listening and learning. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you.
MK Palmore02:52
Thank you. I'm excited about it. And as we've had discussions, I'm already teeing up content, as it were. So I've got some some episodes already in the bag and just really enjoying the conversations I'm having so far.
Sean Martin03:06
Nice. And before we get into that, I mean, you've been on the show before if people are out and about they probably crossed paths at the at a conference somewhere. You and I have had the opportunity to do some work together at Pepperdine Graziadio School of Business with the cyber risk program and some of the cyber programs out there. But I'm not everybody, not everybody knows you. So a few words about who MK is, and maybe look into the journey that brought you to this point, because I know you've you've been involved in a lot of things, my friend, a lot of cool things. So maybe share a few of those highlights.
MK Palmore03:51
Appreciate that. So the short, as we call it at Google and TLDR on me as I'm a longtime security practitioner, I'm currently a senior leader at Google Cloud senior cybersecurity leader. I've been at Google now almost two years, I came into the private sector following an extensive career in the US government. 32 years in the US government where I had opportunity, obviously, as a United States Marine with Department of Defense and then an extensive career of 22 years with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Point two years as a special agent in the FBI allowed me the opportunity late in my career with the Bureau to transition into cybersecurity and I got what might be considered a world class lesson up close and personal on cybersecurity issues, cyber threat landscape and investigating cyber crimes as a senior leader in the Bureau, and then got on the speaking circuit. So I do quite a bit of speaking as it relates to cybersecurity and the topic of leadership and we're gonna get to that I think here in a in a bit and then you know, Retired from government service after 32 years and went to work for a company called Palo Alto Networks for a few years as a field seaso. And really got my feet underneath me got my sea legs as it were in in the private sector. And that catapulted me into my current position at at Google Cloud. So longtime government employee now successfully operating in the private sector, and I've been in the leadership practice and around for the entirety of my professional career and then so so it's definitely a passion topic for me, appreciate the opportunity to get on here and talk to you guys about
Sean Martin05:41
ya know, it's obvious the the passion, and I've seen you speak and seen some of your posts on LinkedIn that you've already put out. And insightful, inspiring. And I don't say, very welcoming, I mean, very approachable, and how you put things together. And so what prompted you to, let's take a step back. So the podcast, kind of as a result of the work you're already doing with the leadership student, maybe talk to us about the bigger picture first, and then all of the podcast comes into play with that.
MK Palmore06:20
So I hate to do this to you guys. But I gotta take you all the way back to my My youth. My back,
Sean Martin06:27
I say back when I was hatched,
MK Palmore06:30
way, way back when I when I was a little guy growing up in Washington, DC, my dad, who I consider to be a leadership student, certainly a student of the discipline, expressed to me and very early, very early in my childhood, about the concept of leadership, and he explained it to me in the context of football, I was a huge, you know, and still, I'm a huge NFL fan, and I was, you know, kind of caught on caught the NFL bug pretty early in life. And I'll never forget. He asked me one day, I couldn't have been more than five or six years old, he asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I said, Hey, I'm going to be a running back in the NFL. His response to me was, Why be a running back when you can be the quarterback who's the leader of the team. And that started a series of conversations he then had with me as I was growing up around what it means to lead what it means to be the person who is driving the momentum, bringing force to an issue or problem and then getting people together to solve a problem. And that conversation literally stuck with me from from that day until present. And I've gone through essentially a lifetime of being a student of this discipline, thinking about, and of course, I've grown and maturity wise as a as a leader, over the years, certainly my time in the military is a reflection of my desire to develop my skills as a leader, probably no better place to sort of earn your earn your stripes or practice, the discipline of leadership in the military. But I've had some pretty unique experiences, both in the private sector and public sector. And it remains as a passion topic for me, because it's something that because it involves people means it's challenging, right? There's no one textbook that you can read. It's an amalgamation of reading experience and your exposure to different types of leaders, your experience, as a leader that ultimately results in positioning you wherever you happen to be in terms of your career. And I certainly feel that way. And it gives me the idea that we're all on this continual journey around developing as leaders. And that's where the idea of being sort of the eternal student, or as I call it, the leadership student, that's where the idea of all from and I just, I got to the point in my career, where I want to get back to that passion, and I want to share with others, the stories that I have and the experiences that I have, but I also want to extend that because, you know, I'm just one person in this huge maze of hours. And there are so many other fantastic stories of folks who just have these great experiences and leadership. And if we can tease out in these conversations, some of their backgrounds and give folks some nuggets, I think they can get some real good takeaways and help them develop, ultimately. Well, I think
Marco Ciappelli09:29
so because as you're going through this eternal student, and the joke that Shawn and I made at the beginning, I feel like there is a ton of books out there on leadership. I had few guests on my own show. I talked to you know, astronauts that have been commander in space and they are amazing leaders coming from the military, of course. So I always wonder, is that really like the formula for being In the perfect leader, or there are many different situation where you adopt your leadership, that your leadership to be the good leadership for the job.
MK Palmore10:13
Yeah. So that the short answer to that is yes. Right, all of the above? That's a great question. And I think that it's one of the things that we grapple with on the on the podcast series, I put that in the same lane as the question that I intend to ask every guest on the show, and that is whether or not leaders are born or made. Where do you come out on that? And what do you think really, are the ingredients that make an exceptional leader, and I think that I'm not going to share all of the results. But I think that what you'll find is that most folks believe that it's a combination of things that really, it's like ingredients, some of which you can't really identify, because I believe part of it has to do with some aspects of what you're born with. But then those what you're born with, in terms of characteristics, has to have a certain experience in order to enrich those characteristics, develop them, and then position you, you have to be in a position then to exercise, learn from those experiences, and then carry on and develop yourself as a leader. So it's a combination of all of those things. I don't think there's a single book that you can read. But certainly you can. I'm a big proponent of reading about other folks leadership journeys, because even if, you know, even if the entire journey doesn't resonate with me, there will be certain aspects of their story that will so I think the short answer is that leadership, certain aspects of leadership can be taught, I think it's important. Certainly, the military, I think as as an entity believes that it can be taught Otherwise, they wouldn't have a whole system where they bring in folks at certain ages as officers and expect for them to lead others nearly immediately after a certain amount of training. They have the same expectations of enlisted personnel at certain levels of their matriculation. So there's a lot that goes into it, reading, exposing yourself to, even if it's just, you know, thought leadership talks, speeches, and then the real thing that really helps people develop as leaders is that direct experience, if you if you haven't spent time, actually being responsible for the outcomes of others, then it's hard for people to really get what the Leadership Challenge is about. And part of the thing that I was hoping to distill or uncover in the newsletter on LinkedIn, was that I see a lot of great quotes about leadership out there from folks who I'm not sure I've actually actually done any leadership, or actually been in the, in the breach, as you might say, leading people. And while some of those quotes are great, again, I want to tease out stories around people who have actually kind of been there, done that, walk the walk the talk, so to speak on the subject.
Sean Martin12:56
Yeah, and I guess to both your points to Marco's question and then your response. It's, it's an Margaret does this quite a bit? Using the concept of ingredients, right? Just because you have ingredients doesn't mean you can make something tasty? Absolutely, absolutely. As your point. And to your point, because you made something tasty, doesn't mean you can make it again the same way. You may not always have access to the same writing ingredients, or you might mix up the process or something, which is another part of the process, right. And so, talk to me a bit about the the format of of your show. Clearly, you have experience and you're bringing your own thoughts, you have guests that are bringing their own, or using resources, as well to kind of help run things out. And how much can I add to this concept of ingredients? How much of what you do in your show, is presenting the story versus helping the listeners hear the story and apply it to their own experience.
MK Palmore14:00
Now, I'm hoping in the context of the show, to bring in great people with great experiences. And through my skills as an interviewer since I spent a career in the FBI interviewing people get to something that's super interesting. And it may start off superficial to sort of opening the door to the conversation. But believe me, inevitably in their responses, I will identify something that I think is a key piece of the marsala of leadership, this this combination of things and those are the things that we then double click on and tease out in the context of a conversation so it's a one on one interview with me there's actually very little of I try as as much as I can to step back on my my personal background because folks can get that from my my talks and my my leadership writings and musings and that kind of thing. I'm really interested in hearing other people's stories around leadership because it is I feel like a bit of a Turn on monk, if you will, in the leadership, discipline and practice. And I just want I want to hear selfishly for myself, because I get stuff from the stories as well. And I figure if I'm learning from them, someone else who's listening has to be learning as well.
Marco Ciappelli15:13
And how, how wide and how much variety not now, I feel like I want to talk about food, how much how many different ingredients and exotic food, you're going to bring in on meaning, you're going to talk with people from different vertical industries, how far you can go, because you can be a leader, just teaching kids,
MK Palmore15:37
right, you can be a leader in a lot of different functions. And that's a great question. And I'm trying as best I can to identify leaders across a variety of business verticals, trying not to over index on the type of leader that I am, because there's an inclination to quickly identify folks who whose careers and backgrounds resonate for me, people who come from military backgrounds or careers in public service, and that kind of thing. While I want to include those stories, I do want to try and get as wide a swath as I possibly can, because you hit the nail on the head, you can be leaders in so many different aspects of life. And that's something that I intend to tackle as well, this idea of straightforward leading isn't always the case, there's coaching, which is a different aspect of leading, where you are leading groups continuously in terms of, you know, Team evolution, indoor development and execution. There's this idea of being an advisor, which I feel like I'm at, at this point in my career where I have, you know, good stable of folks that I, that both I reach out to, and who reach out to me for continuous advice, and, and conversation really around career moves and career trajectory and progression. And so we evolve, I think, continuously throughout our careers and these different levels of leadership. And I'm trying to really get away from the typical hierarchical belief that you know, just because you're put in charge of a bunch of people that that automatically makes you a leader, it certainly puts you in a leadership position, whether or not you execute well on is, is another thing. But then there's other opportunities to lead to include, by the way, as one of the great leadership authors wrote, including when you're not leading anyone, in other words, when you're just in charge of yourself, you know, something, Maxwell called a 360 degree leader. So the Marines I think, evangelize this concept for a while, which is this idea of lead from wherever you stand, no matter where you happen to be in the organization, you can be a leader, whether you have people working with or for you or not. And this idea of it has been amplified over time. And I'm a big believer in that certainly coming into the private sector where my my first role was as a individual contributor. I had never heard of that before. I didn't know what that was until I got assigned that role at Palo Alto Networks. And I was still able to step into the room and act as a leader. Even if in the small touches with account teams, providing advice around how to approach a particular customer, what may be needed to be involved in the engagement with the customer, that kind of thing. So there's opportunities to lead in lots of different places, and it doesn't always have the title leader or an official designation.
Marco Ciappelli18:27
Yeah, sometimes maybe you're just somebody to inspire. I mean, I think inspiring is comes together with the word leadership, many times, right, like, can you inspire it? Can you inspire just one person? Or many? Are you still a leader? If you inspire just one person? In my opinion? Yes, you're giving a good example. And it's not a matter of quantity, but quality. Right? Right.
MK Palmore18:53
Yeah, especially if you know, in your position as a leader, you inspire one person who happens to knock knock a project out of the park, and gets the whole team, the kind of awareness and spotlight attention that the team deserves. I mean, it all it takes when when you're in a an official role as a leader, you have to be cognizant that you're influencing folks, no matter whether you're expecting to influence them or not. And the same should be said, you know, for those of us who have risen at this point in our careers to a point where we are in a position to influence folks, we may or I get people that reach out to me all the time who had maybe one conversation, or heard me talk at a function and there was some nugget they got out of it and took away and then change their personal trajectory. And they went off and did something great because they said you said X, Y and Z that people are capable of jumping into the cybersecurity industry and all they needed to do was, you know, study, go get a cert, make some networking connections. I did all of that and was successful. That's a form of leadership.
Sean Martin20:00
Speaking of the different forms, clearly we have history in cybersecurity. And Google Cloud is a technology that serves many businesses. Tell me about the leadership role you're going to be talking about, is it? I know, we purposely purposely said, This is not cybersecurity, this is leadership across the board. Right. But But is it also? Or is it around business leadership? Or do you touch on other personal aspects of leadership? You said, leading yourself? Right?
MK Palmore20:35
I mean, I think there's probably going to be a bit of an over indexing on business leadership, because I am absolutely fascinated as now a senior leader in business. I'm fascinated by, by by what passes for leadership in business sometimes, and I'm not talking about, you know, direct experiences, necessarily, but I think oftentimes in this is one of the challenges actually, which I think is an interesting question in our industry, from a technology standpoint, do we conflate technology expertise with leadership nowadays? I think we do. And I would love to debate or have a conversation with anyone about that. I think what we see in the technology industry is we assume that because someone has an immense amount of technical knowledge that that makes them a good leader. And that is, that's a fallacy. Can someone with technical expertise, be a good leader? Absolutely. But it doesn't mean because they do have technical expertise, that they are a great leader. And you should expect, in those instances where we have, you know, folks with deep technical expertise leading that they still need some of that nurturing and some of those components of what it means to be a good leader. And, you know, certain companies certainly recognize that I can tell you, personally, at Google, as a senior leader, they understand that you come in as a senior quote unquote, leader, there's an expectation that you also think about the discipline of leadership in a different way. And they make sure you go through executive level courses and get some exposure to what's called the Google leadership, school, which I think is a great thing. Because if you're, you got to recognize the importance and impact that this particular discipline has. And when you don't recognize it, or you don't take the time to pay attention, that you're maybe putting people into roles that require them to think and approach team leadership. And in a particular way, if you don't take time to nurture that, then you could set yourself up for some team failures. And then you're always, you know, left to wonder why teams aren't executing at a very high level, when you get this great technical leader in place. And that's because maybe there's not enough of an emphasis on the discipline of leadership there.
Marco Ciappelli22:50
I love that. And I couldn't agree based on my own experience, either doing sports is a you know, you grew up doing sports and or, you know, music, anything really, just because you're so good at something doesn't automatically make you somebody that is able to teach or or lead, like how many good the player cannot be good coach.
MK Palmore23:16
That's the perfect analogy, right? It's this idea that just because you in baseball happen to be a 350 hitter or a 400 hitter, doesn't mean you're going to make you be a great manager in baseball, in you know, basketball, you know, some of the greatest players in history, have taken a run at coaching and failed miserably at it, because they couldn't instill in the players the same kind of drive that they had that made them these phenomenal players. Leadership takes a lot of self reflection, and it takes humility, I think to understand that something different is being asked of you when you're put in a leadership position. And if you don't have that ability to self reflect, if you don't have that level of humility, there can be some fantastic failures that you experience.
Sean Martin24:05
Even if even if there is a tremendous success to look back on, it may have come at huge expense, he may have like driven the team mad in the process, or were burned them all out or, or destroyed the car and in the f1 race, right, but right now and we no longer have a car, you have to spend another million dollars on another one.
MK Palmore24:29
And let's be clear, leadership's one of those disciplines that quite frankly, you learn an immense amount from failure. You learn more from your failures than you do the successes, the differences. Are you able to then take the learnings from that failure and then turn it around so that you don't experience them with any kind of repeatability in the future?
Marco Ciappelli24:53
One more question for me. Do you think that the style of leadership is changed? change in the latest year, when I think about leadership years ago, I would think more about authority. You know, kind of like that, that now and I think about a good leader, I think about empathy.
MK Palmore25:15
You nailed it, you cut right to the chase there. I have not always been someone who's cognizant about the subject of empathy, or the fact that that needs to be a characteristic of leaders, I will tell you that, you know, the hierarchical leadership type background that I came from empathy wasn't a big area of focus. I've come to believe in my own evolution, that empathy May. Among the characteristics, it's an MVP, it's pretty high, and close to the top. And yes, I believe leadership has definitely changed in the way that it's practice over time. And there's lots of different reasons for that. But I certainly believe that the most effective leaders today are ones who can show that they understand that the people that they're leading and the teams that they're leading have lives, business and things outside of the realm of their day to day work. And if you're not taking those things into account, in your practice of leadership to account for allowing folks to show up as their whole selves, you're not getting the kind of high performance that you may be capable of getting out of people. And when folks recognize that you have an interest in their personal outcomes, they actually perform better for you. And a lot of people still miss the boat on that.
Sean Martin26:40
I can look back to an executive that I worked with, who is very charismatic and create a belief amongst the organization. So they believed in Him, they believed in what he was guiding them toward. And that belief system really kind of pulled everybody along with him. And it was, it was pretty incredible to watch. I believe MK you're gonna have some really cool conversations. So tell us tell us, I know, I know, you have some already already in the works. And then you have a special broadcast ally panel that you've pulled together. at RSA conference, I need to use this a little bit about what's coming up.
MK Palmore27:28
So I've got a couple episodes in the bag already. And what I'm finding is that I've had already a variety of that direct leader conversation. So then folks that kind of come up in the in the system very similar to the one that I came up in and have some very codified beliefs and an approach to leadership that for this person has been absolutely effective. And actually, I get a lot of energy out of hearing them talk about how they approach it, and they're able to kind of rattle off their the principles that guide their leadership all the way to folks who are professional coaches in this realm. I had a fantastic conversation that will come out with a leadership coach, I don't think that you know, maybe a decade ago that this idea of leadership coaching really had caught steam, folks constantly believe, is this a racket? Is it real that you can actually be a coach to someone and really help them evolve and and teach their leadership? I believe you can I have a great conversation with a leadership coach who's got some extensive experience in the industry in that regard. And I think that, that kind of variety, again, across a variety of business verticals, is what folks can expect to hear, in these conversations. And there, you know, I get lost in the conversations already, I think timewise we're hitting like 40 and 45 minutes per combo. And I think I had originally thought it might be a little shorter than that. But I get lost in the combos because they're good conversations. And I hope that folks will listen, you know, turn them on when they're commuting outside of their remote work and home offices, and, you know, at some point in time during the day, just to get those nuggets out of them. So the conversations have been good. And I'm excited about all the ones to come.
Sean Martin29:09
And I think when you when you have the passion for like you do, and I can I can sell you for my own show, when when I'm really into it. I forget about what's going on. I'm just thinking about what am I interested what what questions am I having? What am I thinking about? Thank you guests or guests for forgetting me to think. And speaking of thinking, that RSA conference is coming up the the theme is better together and you have a group of people you've brought together to do a show from the floor in the broadcast alley. It's called identifying and developing and nurturing diverse leaders in cybersecurity. And I know you're part of a group diversity, and I think you have a few few folks joining you from that and maybe tell us a little bit about that session, what do you really expect to do? So,
MK Palmore30:05
diversity, it's a nonprofit that's been around since 2014. I recently was asked to take on a position as the vice president of the organization, which means I'll be matriculating as the president at the end of the year and taking on a three year term. I'm fascinated by this topic of the lack of diversity in the cybersecurity industry. And I'm fascinated because an industry desperately needs people. Because the pipeline shortage, if you look at any one particular consensus figure, somewhere around 750,000 open positions here in the United States annually, we are more than a decade behind filling this gap of people. And there is a demographic of people out there, women, people of color veterans, others who could help us shorten that gap. And all they need is a little bit of outreach. Sometimes they need a helping hand, sometimes they need access to training materials and things that might position them well, to just break into the industry. And all these folks are willing to do the work. They just need exposure to the opportunity. And that's what diversity is about. And so, I've asked the current chairman of the board, Julian weights, the current president, Larry Whiteside, Jr, two names that are likely familiar, certainly to the security, folks listening to this podcast. And then Sharon Burgess, who's the current vice chairman of the board, and Sharon's are currently sitting CISO, for a large global organization. It really just these folks are heavyweights in the field, they're all executive leaders for diversity. And so I'm going to take a step back as the vice president of the organization, a member of the board and just interview them about why this is a passion topic for them as well, and what their experience has been developing leaders, you know, people of color and women in our industry. And I think it'll be a very unique conversation. This is another one of those things where I think you'll probably get lost in the conversation, because their answers will inevitably push me into different lanes, different areas of questioning. And because they have such deep experience, I think the conversation is going to be phenomenal. So I'm really looking forward to it.
32:24
And I mean, Mark, and I have the have the honor to be there with you watching these be recorded. So I'm excited to actually witness it in person. And for those listening to this, you can too. So it's Moscone West. And if you get the time, right, so it's Wednesday, the 26th at 10. local time, Pacific Time. And come by see the see the crew, hear the conversation. Of course, we're obviously on YouTube and our podcast players as well. But if you want to meet some leaders, stop by the broadcast ally that they it'd be a great conversation. Stop by and say hello. Absolutely.
Marco Ciappelli33:06
Yeah, great guest I happen to know two out of three. So I'm sure the 30 is fantastic as well. And yes, the Shauna reminded all that content will come on itsp magazine will be in podcast format, we will be on video and very soon, your show will be available, as well. And I usually ask this question, which is like who you envision the audience to be, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer for you. I think the answer is everybody. Because either, right? Did I nail that? Okay, good. I mean, either you want to judge who is your leader? Is it doing the right thing that could be an idea, maybe you'll get inspired to be like, Hey, I could be a leader too. And so either you're young, you're older, you're more mature role in the industry, any industry really, or even if, again, even if you're coaching a team of kids playing soccer, or football or whatever it is. I I'm looking forward to listen to this. So again, Shawn, we we got lucky again, to have another amazing host join the itsp magazine, podcast Nightcore family, and we're really looking forward to this. And when we publish these will probably be there. You already published your first episode. They're very close to it. And, again, I'm excited I invite everybody to participate. Comment, because that's important to two way communication, right. I think it's part of leadership as well, but I don't want to keep talking about it. But
Sean Martin34:47
subscribe. newsletter on LinkedIn for this for leadership students. Very good to catch all the stuff that he puts out, including the podcast,
MK Palmore34:58
man, I appreciate that. support guys I'm looking forward to formally stepping into my role as part of the itsp. Magazine, family of podcasters. And just looking forward to the experience.
Marco Ciappelli35:11
Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you.
MK Palmore35:15
Thank you. Thanks for having
Voiceover35:19
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